The "Death" of Child Avies

[Kit Coyote]

I know this is an Ambrea wide rule change and there is little point protesting it, but I felt we out to have a thread to discuss, vent, and generally hob nob about it over tea and biscuits. Please keep it friendly since after all there is really little the Admins can do about it and I'm sure our Admins resisted it for poor Kathia's sake (smiles).

My one underage Avie I'm currently playing is about to turn 18 so he is not problem though I had enjoyed playing the rebellious teen so much I was going to propose a new more permanent teen alt LOL.

Since Jhulae is pregnant again (somebody needs to send Kit to the vet and get him fixed) how is this going to affect that RP? We going to say no more pregnancies or have the Fae stealing the children and hauling them off to Faerie to grow up overnight?

[Frosty Insoo]

I was enjoying reading the thoughts and view points of so many and the tone of this thread, until several posts back. I won't mention which. The discussion points out both the PROS and CONS to having Child Avatars in RP and in a sim.

I wasn't at the Sim owner meeting either, and though not technically a Sim owner, I have a great deal invested. Time, effort, friends I've made and an affection for all the lands that have turned us into one World, not just Ravenscraig. The dollars I've spent, I will never see back, and never expect too, These sims have been a labor of love for many of us.

So, when you love something, pour your heart into it and make every effort to encourage it to grow and succeed, you become very protective of ensuring it's survival. Reading through the TOS and the rules, there ARE situations, unfortunately, which could arise which would put our sims at risk, potentially leaving a void of any RP.

In medieval times, many things would happen that under the laws and eyes of todays society, would be deemed unacceptable behavior. Throw that logic to the Lindens, and see how many things they would and would not agree to. As Kenn has asked many times through this thread.. "Lets get that in writing from LL"

In essence, our sims have MANY responsible and reasonable players. Kathia's RP was always a pleasure to watch, and I've interacted with, played with and one occasion, been bitten by several child Rpers. =)

However, lets not forget the unreasonable players, or those in today's society that even as we speak, are molding the freedoms of Second Life, due to the Real World being based in the year 2008. THAT's the real challenge Folks.

*copies and pastes a comment from a different thread*

"...having a Character, who IS 18 years old, and ACTS younger, for whatever reason they choose. As long as their Approved character card says 18, their Avatar looks 18, I'd hope it would be fine.

A stupid thought came to mind...there are moral obligations in RL with the handicapped as well. If they play someone with an impairment, I have to wonder, when the next wave of News hits SL, will LL be asked to ensure we all have the correct Ramps, and facilities in place to take care of those "acting" physically or mentally impaired? =P"

I fear I have enough experiences in RL and SL, that when negative emotions, or multiple perceptions start being placed under the microscope, rules, regulations, and "laws" start taking over from common sense.

Please understand the sim owners are protecting an environment they've all worked so hard to create, and please keep in mind, LL has changed/changes the Rules quickly on us.

Maybe a few of you may discover a way to get the security we need from LL to allow Age play, or perhaps a few of you are so strong in your convictions, you could band together and accept the risk of having an Ambrean area where Child players can Play. Keep this discussion flowing =)

[Kit Coyote]

Well I've made my points the best I can, I think any further debating on my part will just be repetitious and promote bad feelings. I don't mean for this and I apologize if I have hurt or irritated anyone but I do feel strongly and had to speak out. Thank you for discussing it and I hope that maybe there will be a reconsideration but if not I will continue to play in Karamoon though I will miss dearly having Kitlings to protect. I'll see if I can get something from the Lindens but make no guarantees and I think others should try also particularly the sim owners who probably have more influence than I do.

Please have more tea and biscuits.

[Kit Coyote]

Ok I went to the Live Help Chat and asked for some clarification from LL. Here is the log:

Sejong: Greetings, Kit_Giha. please wait while I am assisting other residents. Thank you for your patience.
Sejong: can I help you?
Kit_Giha: Hi, I have a TOS issue
Sejong: alright
Kit_Giha: I role play in a medieval fantasy RP sim, think D&D. While it is a mature sim we have underage characters, in fact my character has a family in the sim.
Sejong: please explain your issue
Sejong: okay
Sejong: so what is your question?
Kit_Giha: The sim owners (multi-sim league) are basically being told horror stories that have them afraid that LL will delete their sims with no warning or arbitration if some just swears in front of child character so they are going to ban all child characters. Needless to say this is distressing. Is there any sort of clarification on the TOS policy on this I can get to reassure them?
Sejong: first of all, having child avatar is not against any Terms of Service or Community Standard.
Sejong: however, when the child avatar is engaged in any sexual activity, that is where serious trouble begins
Sejong: as long as child avatar doesn't do anything sexual, there should be no problem.
Kit_Giha: This is understood at least by me and I've argued that the TOS is mostly concerned with Age Play (sexual conduct) but again they are hearing other things from other sim owners.
Sejong: and we Linden Lab dont' do such thing as "deleting sims". we would probably suspend the avatar if evidence is found. you shouldn't worry about the issue much as just having child avatar is not a problem at all
Kit_Giha: They are particularly worried about misinterpretations and overreactions by someone.
Kit_Giha: If someone reports an issue how is it handled?
Sejong: when abuse report is submitted, our governance team would carefully inspect logs see if there was actual evidence of it. if there is no evidence found, they won't do anything about it.
Kit_Giha: Ok I'll take that back to the discussion board and hope it helps. Thanks. Who should they contact if they have more concerns?
Sejong: they can submit a ticket to governance team by going to secondlife.com/support => ticket submission
Kit_Giha: Ok thank you very much

[Nezumi Yamayoshi]

good work s so fare kit. I am working on more info if I can. but looks like so fare so good. over reracting and jumpiing the gun dose cuse a lot of problems and cause people to worry. but as I said back a few posts back as long as the rules you set are followed you should not have a problem. your rules were very good and sound as was km we all could get to gether and desus rules for child avi's incited of banning them. but I will look for mor einfor mation where i can.

[Byron Kayo]

Your a legend Kit

[Kara_Root]

I am sorry if some of my words should've implied to you that you don't have the right to voice your opinion. They weren't meant to. I was merely overemphasizing the fact that a considerable portion of the sim owners seem to think that allowing child avis equates to them taking a significant monetary risk.

There are several ways to alleviate these reservations. Getting a statement from LL - like Kit tried - certainly goes that way, and maybe it's sufficient to convince one or two of them in the end. Insuring them against the risk is another option, but not unexpectedly, not many of us seem to want to underwrite that risk (although Kit argues it is practically non-existing... which should mean it doesn't amount to anything if you underwrite that guarantee... :) ).

Anyway... enough money blah, blah. If you can't RP what you want to in a region, and it doesn't yield to a calm voicing of your opinion, you're quite right in seeking happiness elsewhere. We'd miss you.

[Nezumi Yamayoshi]

Nicely put frosty and Kit, I do hope we all can ban togather and rally work something out. *hugs to every one*

[Byron Kayo]

and very calmly and eloquently put yourself Nez, thank you too.

[Zen]

I just want to get my 38 cents in on this.

I feel very much the same about ageplay as I do about furries. I don't quite get it, it's not my thing, I find it occasionally disruptive in a roleplay environment (not most of the time by any means, but sorry it does happen), and I support wholeheartedly anybodies right to engage in it and look very critically at any sort of blanket ban.

It pisses me off to no end that we have all allowed our civilization to become one where the person who is easiest to offend becomes the standard for what is offensive. I believe completely in the old saying (by Oliver Wendell Holmes I believe) "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins" It is the right of everyone to leave a situation they dislike, it is the right of everyone to have a say in something that effects them directly. If you are harmed then take action, if you are merely offended then leave. Too many people mistake offended for harmed.

(As an aside, I am not pointing fingers here, we are, from what I have witnessed in my time here, the rational ones on the whole, the fingers are squarely pointing "Out there")

And now the weird part, I support the decision to ban child AVs as made by the landowners. They are in a place where they are deeply invested, both in time and money, in a way that could easily be taken from them by the whims of irrational minds that think that because they are offended that they are being harmed. (could I have used the word 'they' more times in one sentence?). This is not a risk they signed up for and it's not their battle to fight. In the absence of clear and rigid guidelines as to what will and will not be allowed, and their self imposed responsibility to each other and to us, I suspect I would make the same decision.

So get out there and petition for better guidelines and assurances from the powers that be (good going Kit) If we can get a decisive agreement that it is the out of TOS player that would be targeted and not the community/landowner then maybe we can get the landowners the breathing room to rethink the risk and their willingness to take it on.

[Zen]

In game they keep Zen away from the kids, she would likely just eat them :)

[Kit Coyote]

Hmmm I wonder if eating kids would be considered a violation of the TOS? It is a legitimate faerie tale theme and isn't technically sexual. I suppose if they were dispatched humanly and cooked properly it wouldn't be considered extreme violence. There is this entire sugar based housing industry for supply witches with their daily meals. :)

[Zen]

Aren't you the one meant to be defending the morsels?