The "Death" of Child Avies

[Kit Coyote]

I know this is an Ambrea wide rule change and there is little point protesting it, but I felt we out to have a thread to discuss, vent, and generally hob nob about it over tea and biscuits. Please keep it friendly since after all there is really little the Admins can do about it and I'm sure our Admins resisted it for poor Kathia's sake (smiles).

My one underage Avie I'm currently playing is about to turn 18 so he is not problem though I had enjoyed playing the rebellious teen so much I was going to propose a new more permanent teen alt LOL.

Since Jhulae is pregnant again (somebody needs to send Kit to the vet and get him fixed) how is this going to affect that RP? We going to say no more pregnancies or have the Fae stealing the children and hauling them off to Faerie to grow up overnight?

[LestatDe Dagostino]

*Lmao at the obama comment* not to turn this a poltics talk but yeah still very pissed about how that happend. *grummbles*

anyways As other had said The TSO is not that vague but at the same time I wouldnt trust Linden Labs to go about this properly. I wouldnt doubt they would just *now pardon the spelling i just work up* Indiscrimantly just shut down sims regaurdless of what happend or what didnt happen. Im on the fence for this sad choice simply because I understand bothsides of the aurgement. I feel we shouldnt tell people who to rp or what to rp (unless its like wayyy outthere. Like a huge robot from a nothertime going to the past) But at the same time I know that all it does take is one complaint and Boom pardon my french but shit hits the fan and all hell could brake loose. Its just saddnes me that we lose such a great rper as kathia due to what happend and Lindens inablity to investagate what happend or what didnt happen. Me personaly I dont trust LL as far as I can toss them.

[Nezumi Yamayoshi]

( I am going to go on a limb here. I am a co owner of a sim and region that has child avis and themed for them and people that wish to be families and rp them,. you may thing the idea of family rp is small but it is a sought after rp when relation ships grow. I am sorry you decided to let some inccodent scare you and and make a jump to ban them.. I am part of a sim and regon thats bee nactive for over 5 year we have childen and families rping. we had troubles and LL told us with out prof they can't ban those account able they only ban those that caused the offense not shout down the regon or sim The offense accerded. I know from experience the main policing and responsibility to handle inccodents on a sim or reagin is on the owners to set rules and guidelines they wish their residents to fallow. this is my puff of air if it helps, )

[Kenn]

Nezumi - if we could get some sort of proof in writing from the Lindens stating what you assert (and I have every reason to believe you), I am willing to bet that the child-ban rule would be re-looked-at in a very serious manner.

[Nezumi Yamayoshi]

On more point I would like to ad is. you also have small women and men on your sim as well. Like my doll avi and people under 5 feet, that are adults. I in a since wished you guys would of talked with those that rped families and came up with a rule together that would benefited you both. a med evil sims I know of over the 5 yers of sl rp had rules on here child avis were allowed to be and not be. example " child avis are not allowed in taverns unless escorted by their parent " also they had rules like you did of areas they were not allowed to go. like the keep km , bad lands rc and Karatas. this sim has been runing a long time and never had a problems. MY avi if she stood is 4'11 like most Asian females not very big build either. in essence I do not see any problems you guys will have. as long as very one fallows the rules you set for your reidan. I and Katie followed your child avi rules when you had hem. it up to the sim owners ban those that cause truble on there sim saving you any problems, my simI am co owner to and the old medevil sim before it finally died did to the owner not able to run it was told your responcenle to your sims policing and baning those the brake your rules and standers, as long as rules are followed no problems no ll breatheing down your necks. to anrew your wrong place at the wrong time is it happens. they appologise a to whom ever they walked in on and walk off. same worth combat we leave and go else where.. these are just my vews any way and experience)

[Kit Coyote]

Look I don't know what goes on in Kratas but in Karamoon 90% of our roleplay does NOT involve:

sexual or lewd acts involving or appearing to involve children or minors
depictions of sexual violence including rape
depictions of extreme or graphic violence, and other broadly offensive content
((I assume these are all referring to scenes involving child avatars. If not or if the meter fight and RP text combat that occasionally occur in the Port square contitutues 'extreme graphic violence' then you might as well close your sim now and reopen it as fluffy bunny land))

Quite frankly, Daniel is doing nothing more than quoting the TOS and its not so ambigous as you make it out. The meaning is clear no sex or extreme violence directed at a child Avatar but we already have those restrictions in place and the places in the sim where sexual interplay and extreme violence are likely to take place are off limits to child avatars. And in my honest opinion this method has worked quite well.

I've already pointed out why trying to apply your example of the other sim is not appropriate because the very nature of that sim violated two of the criteria above. There should never have been child avatars there to begin with. Nor is the scenario orginially described really useful, such a malicious bit of sabotage could occur where you have a child ban in place or not.

A significant amount of our RP involves community and family interaction to include children. It enriches the type of role play that brought many of us to Karamoon as opposed to the hack and slash or gor type fantasy. That is now going to be greatly reduced and lost because of what is in my opinon paranoid overreaction. I understand the sim owners have invested a lot of time, money and love in their creations and don't want to see that ripped away overnight. But I can't help but feel it is wrong to take the easy way out and punish good players and impose censorship out of fear and initimidation.

Nezumi has presented us a co-sim owners view that is quite different from Korwyn's example of how bad the Lindens are on this subject. How many sims have actually been closed because a child avatar was in accidentally in the wrong place? Kenn says it might be different if we knew where the Lindens stand, did anyone bother to ask the Lindens before coming to this decision? Wouldn't it be better to make an informed decision about this instead of just making a kneejerk reaction to paranoia?

[Nezumi Yamayoshi]

we are argueing cause this rule move will alienate a large porhson of the rp group. not every one are hack an slashers some want a rp a family in km and rc as well. ban child avis you bans those that want tro rp a midevil family as well. I felt your curent rules were grate pitty you changed them*

[Nezumi Yamayoshi]

Another sim that has child avis and familes is a top rp and compat sim in its self and they had no problems eather, Nosgoth

[Byron Kayo]

There really is no need to shout

[Kit Coyote]

You are making the classic mistake people make on this issue. There is noone 'legally' under 18 here regardless of what age their character is. The purpose of the TOS is to prevent perverts from using SL to live out their child porn fantasies, not protect actual children. There is no reason to be concerned if a child witnesses a sword fight on the docks because there is no child in reality.

[Kit Coyote]

"But the rules say that THEY CAN HAPPEN, do they not?"

Under specific conditions and only in certain places

"Do people get tortured in the KEEP? I know they used to."

Yes and that is specifically why child avatars are forbidden from entering the Keep under any circumstances.

"Was Kendai peed on in the Town Square? Does that not have a fetish connotation with it (not saying anyone is into that fetish but it is a recognized sexual fetish out there)."

Don't know the details of this, was in a sexual context? Where children present? How often does this happen? I would guess the answers are no, no and extremely rare.

Is not a sword fight int he square intensive violence? Swords CUT and CAN kill. (rules state death is by character consent only but the thing is the ACT is happening)

Figuratively yes but it really doesn't meet what they mean be 'extreme graphic violence' meter and RP battle in Karamoon is really not that graphic at all. The players don't have time to be mounting battle wounds in the middle of the fight. Most never bother with it the only indication of injury is the color of the meter. Extreme GRAPHIC violence refers to visual and extremely detail depictions. If violence itself was an issue to the child protection crowd Harry Potter and Pokemon would be a banned.

The problem here is I look at the quotes you provided from the Lindens and the TOS and read exactly what they say. You seem to be reading considerably more into them than the actual words imply.

Yes there is certain sensitivity to having child avatars in the sim. That is why they have to be specially approved in Karamoon and played by players who have established themselves as good role players. We have never had any trouble with this system that I am aware of.

[Byron Kayo]

Gees, i wish i could stay as calm and analytical as you Kit. Ive already pulled the baseball bat out.

[Nezumi Yamayoshi]

So from this day forth they ask you to report and tell on your fellow residents who engage in sex, engage in shooting and killing, engage in slaving, engage in many pretend activities that you feel are offensive. Report them all. Except most of the SL community are not extremists.



"almost every article I’ve read about this inaccurately accuses Linden Lab of violating Second Life participants’ “free speech rights.” That’s not how it works — the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution only prohibits government action. If Linden Lab wants to turn Second Life into Club Penguin, it’s allowed to. Like it or not, you don’t have a constitutionally protected “right” to do much of anything in Second Life." Quoted from Benjamin Duranske blog - http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/06/10/policing-content/

We, like every other community in Secondlife do our own little things that some find offensive. This is how it is always going to be, this is how the world works. Linden Lab say they will deal with something if many find BROADLY offensive. This they have done with Chadricks first policy change.

In the end its down to us to carry on with our Secondlives, doing what we feel is ok, respecting others feelings and educating those who have no understanding about why we choose to be this hight in SL