The "Death" of Child Avies

[Kit Coyote]

I know this is an Ambrea wide rule change and there is little point protesting it, but I felt we out to have a thread to discuss, vent, and generally hob nob about it over tea and biscuits. Please keep it friendly since after all there is really little the Admins can do about it and I'm sure our Admins resisted it for poor Kathia's sake (smiles).

My one underage Avie I'm currently playing is about to turn 18 so he is not problem though I had enjoyed playing the rebellious teen so much I was going to propose a new more permanent teen alt LOL.

Since Jhulae is pregnant again (somebody needs to send Kit to the vet and get him fixed) how is this going to affect that RP? We going to say no more pregnancies or have the Fae stealing the children and hauling them off to Faerie to grow up overnight?

[Kit Coyote]

Sits out a tea pot, cups and biscuits on his best hide tablecloth and doilies. Pulls up a tree stump and awaits discussion.

[Jhulae]

((dont think Jhulae wants Kit fixed....would be better just to fix it so Jhulae doesnt get pregnant again:P))

[Kit Coyote]

Understood, I'm not wanting to turn this into a gripe at the admins thread, though it probably will be, I just felt it was good to discuss the matter even though its set in stone. Its part of the grieving process LOL.

[Kendai]

I'm quite sad to see the child avatars go- particularly as I had been asked to play Jhulae's third child and was looking forward to the experience. I held off from asking though because I had heard rumors about the possible restriction of child avatars, and I see now that I was right to do so. Fortunately I had not bought anything yet for the avatar alt I would have had to make, and now I know I will probably have to set up for a young adult avatar rather than a child one, if the pregnancy still goes through as planned.

From what I've heard, this comes all the way from the Lindens and SL itself, in trying to avoid legal trouble with laws governing child pornography in the European Union and in the United States. Since Ambrea is a collection of mature sims that contain violence and sex, all it would take is one complaint about a child avatar (despite that avatar being played by a mature adult) being present in a certain situation, and the sim would be taken out. I do not blame the land owners for their decision, as it is safer for all of us in the end. All it takes is just one to ruin it for the rest of us, and I don't think any of us want that to happen.

As for a good in-character reason, many child avatars have taken the route of going to some sort of fairy land to spend time and grow up (never did quite understand it, but hey, it works *wink*). Perhaps Karamoon and the rest of Ambrea has become too dangerous for children, so they are sent away for education? Characters can give birth, and then a week or two can pass and a "child" can return fully grown to live with their parents and join the rest of the roleplay in Karamoon. Not quite as satisfying as watching a child grow up, but we must play with the cards we are dealt with, in the end. :)

[Kit Coyote]

The concept is drawn from both myth and fantasy stories that time in Faerie is not linear and flows at different rates in different places and may even flow backwards in some. Examples would be Rip Van Winkle, the Bedlam's Bard series (Mercedes Lackey). Most realms 'Under the Hill' though pass time slower than Earth or do not pass time at all (aging wise) thus in most cases persons who have been Underhill do not appear to age or age slowly. If they have been Underhill too long then there is the tendency for time to catch up with them when they return to Earth (The World Above). Thus some stories of a person coming back from Faerie and suddenly aging to their true chronological age, with the appropriate and often fatal consequences. None of this is consistent between various stories (not unusual in Faerie myth and fantasy) so there is no hard set rule on how time behaves Underhill. Since its based on wild magic, time like reality Underhill is changeable and anything is possible.

It has now been established in RP among the Wilds and Fae that the "Herd Lands", an area in Faerie where the Satyr and Centaur herds live, is a region where time flows much faster than on Earth. Thus Satyr teens going to the Herd Lands for several years to complete their final training return to Karamoon after only a few days but years older. Now according to my own view of how the wild magic of Faerie works they actually live those years so its not an instant transformation for the character (though its happens 'off stage' obviously) but it appears like it to those in Karamoon.

[Kit Coyote]

I suspect what I and Jhulae will have to do with the new child and its happening already with Tine and Cida, that we will go as a family Underhill and return a week later with an 18 year old. LOL This fits perfectly with Kit's background history, he is an 'adopted' child of Faerie and knows how to travel there readily. Kit and Jhulae can both reappear almost daily during that period as trips back to see how things are doing. This approach isn't going to work for a Human or one of the other 'short lived' races as the parents would themselves age to quickly unless they parents let another take the child.

This does open the door for some changeling RP for the Fae, stealing children for one reason or another and having them return full grown.

[Kenn]

Let me make a quick reply here as I was part of the discussion on this issue.

The playing of underage avatars is an extremely sensitive issue with the current Second Life Terms of Service and the mature nature of Ambrea regions. In fact, according to the SL TOS, region owners can be held responsible for what happens with child avatars on their region. That is not just risky - it is downright dangerous.

The plain fact is that while there are persons who can play positive child avatars, even permitting them at all is extremely dangerous to region owners.

I would suggest petitioning LL to change the SL TOS ... but I think we all know how hopeless that is. Blame Germany and the German news story that got child avatars all but banned from SL.

[Jhulae]

I know that many do well rping as children and others do not. Some people step out of bounds and some stay within the guidlines. There is a group that Tine is apart of that I hope she posts about as it is a really good group as it is suppose to monitor those that play child avies that meet their strict standards. It is sad that that part of rp is being taken away. It does make me wonder if the pregnancy rp within those sims will be too. After all healers dont like to have to be healing people near death ALL the time.

[Kenn]

I don't want to get too involved in this conversation, but I am sad to hear that you would rather leave Karamoon than have a young-acting 18 year old 'child' in your Karamoon family Aine.

The rule was much debated, and almost not put into the list. The #1 deciding factor was that even if child avatars were allowed, they'd basically be excluded from 90% of RP as it is. The result then is a --tremendous-- risk with very, very little benefit.

I think Kendai said it best: "this comes all the way from the Lindens and SL itself, in trying to avoid legal trouble with laws governing child pornography in the European Union and in the United States. Since Ambrea is a collection of mature sims that contain violence and sex, all it would take is one complaint about a child avatar (despite that avatar being played by a mature adult) being present in a certain situation, and the sim would be taken out."

I don't think there is any one of us who actually wants a region without children - but to flatly ignore the dangers of allowing 'official' children into a region ... it invites disaster.

Could persons not play an "18 year old" who's just been sheltered and is still naive? Or are there issues beyond that? (is curious)

[Kit Coyote]

Only very carefully, If an person plays an Avie that looks and acts 12 but says they are 18 it will still be seen as a child Avie under the TOS and many child porn laws.

[Jhulae]

Kenn, if we look at Kathia and her rp as she has been a child the longest in Karamoon, she has always had things to do. Enteracting with other children, learning to heal and being all around too cute to even have Kain think twice then to be evil around her.


As for an 18 year old that has bene sheltered and is still naive... that is kinda like the character a friend of mind is playing....her character is a half human half dragon...she is 18 in human years but very immature as she is still a very young dragon and not an adult in their eyes yet... but also you have to look at the matter also... negative things can come form seveal rping like that as they could be easily taken advantage of ic ...its like putting someone that is 18 but has the mind of a 12 year old out into the world alone....nothing good could come from that without the guidence and learning process that the unsheltered learn

[Kit Coyote]

This is why just saying your 18 is not good enough to pass inspection under these situations. You can get in trouble just by having someone who looks and acts like a child. I ran into exactly that situation in an another sim with a player who was claimed to be 18 but nothing about their Avie or personality fit. They were exactly what Kenn was suggesting a character that is supposed to be 18 but looks and acts younger. A complaint was registered about this character and those interacting with the character warned by the sim owner that the conduct was inappropriate regardless of what the character claimed. The no child policy may actually encourage it since players accepting the claim of 18 may involve the character in inappropriate conduct only to be called on it.

Also, when we are dealing with mythical species as we do here equivalent age (what the species considers '18') is just as important as the calendar age. If you're an Elf species that considers adulthood to be reached at age 30 (as a random example) 18 is still a child as far as many investigating complaints against the sim would be concerned.